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10 Wm.Tooker d 1538 Jeffrey R. Tooker 3-4-00.GED

"Documentation and Conclusions"
Jeffrey R. Tooker

After a lot of research I think I have come up with the line for the ancestors of John Tooker -1658 of Southold Long Island, U.S.A. This connection at present is provisional in that there is no complete chain of documentation to make an absolute connection. I would like to mention a few things which I found which did not agree with previously published information.

John Tooker -1658 was not closely associated with the Revrend John Youngs prior to his (John Tooker -1658) arrival in Southold. I believe this to be true because I looked for the ancestors of John Tooker -1658 starting in Hingham England, where the Revrend John youngs came from. I found that the Revrend John Youngs and his group left Hingham England and came to Hingham Mass. in 1637. They came by way of Great Yarmouth in England. In tracing The Revrend John Youngs travles to Southold I found no evidence or mention of John Tooker -1658.

I do not believe that John Tooker -1658 was called "Captain John". I believe this title was used in refrence to John Tooker/Tucker 1692. The records of Southold seem to support this point. I also believe that there was an elder Charles Tooker and that he may have been the cousin of John -1658. I also believe the elder Charles Tooker died circa 1657. This seems to be supported by Southold Town Records as noted by Doug Tucker. Please see attached post from Doug Tucker.

At present the earliest solid documentation we have for John Tooker -1658 in New England is the Southold Town Record. By inference it can be said that John Tooker -1658 came from England. John -1658 was a member of the Church and was by present day definition a Puritan. There was religeous unrest in England. This and a number of other things led to the civil war in England in the 1640's, and caused many "Non Conformists" to leave England in search of religeous freedom.

Next I drew some conclusions about my line going back to John Tooker -1658. First I concluded that the line is Tooker and only appeared as Tucker in records kept by third parties. These parties either believed that the name Tooker and Tucker were interchangeable or were ill informed enough just put down Tucker because it was common. Secondly the early Tookers had a continuing habit of naming sons Charles and John. Third there some old ledgends in the family comming down from those who kept all the old things like letters,sermons, pictures and other memorabelia, that the Tookers came from the west of England around Plymouth. Also there was a coat of arms that had three hearts. I believe my father still has the old framed picture of the coat of arms in his store of "Family Stuff" in Sacramento. I have been to Yarmouth Nova Scotia where my great grandfather came from. The relatives there still talked of the three hearts. In my research I found that most of those persons who came to New England left England very quietly and mostly there are no records like passenger lists.

Being unable to go back from John Tooker -1658 and the items mentioned above being true, I decided that the only option was to come foreward from England. I knew this was reverse engineering however it was the only option I had. I was aware that I could not take the most prominent Tooker I found and say he was in my line. Therefore the fit with the facts as mentioned above would have would have to be very close. I first went to Hingham England (by way of my local Family History Center courtesy of the L.D.S. Church ) and searched Boyds Marriage records in Norfolk and Suffolk. No Tookers. I next found out "on line" about Robert Dennard Tuckers book "The Descendants of William Tucker of Throwleigh, Devon". Mr.Tucker was kind enough to send me a copy for research purposes.I then pulled all of Boyds Marriage Index for Devon. I found lots of Tookers, Johns were common but Charles was virtually unheard of. I next hired a researcher in Reading England (U.K.). Research was done on an off shoot line from R. D. Tuckers line to no avail. However in the record copies sent by my researcher I found several pedigrees, and Oxford, Cambridge matriculation records of Tookers and Tuckers. The only pedigree which had any Charles entries was for William De Maddington -1538. This pedigree is found in the "Wiltshire Visitation Pedigrees 1623" G. D. Squibb, London, 1954 page 196. After studying the copies for some time I set them aside and did not do any genealogy for several months. Of late I have gotten back to genealogy and started back with William -1538. I built a Gedcom file from the pedigree. The gedcom file is available on request. This established the generational relationships much better than the pedigree itself. After studying the gedcom file and verifying a number of facts with Doug Tucker I have come to a conclusion.

I believe John Tooker -1658 came from the line of William De Maddington. William De Maddington was the owner of Maddingt on Farm sometimes called Maddington Manor. Maddington is presently part of Shrewton and is located in Wiltshire north and west of Salisbury, which was previously known as Sarum. William died in 1538.

William -1538 married Joan. They had one son, John. John and wife unknown had two sons, Charles and George. There is no further record of George. Charles and Matilda Nipperhead (Maud) had four sons, Giles 1573-1623, Thomas 1559- , Charles 1560-1626, John 1562- . In The lines of Giles and Charles' descendants there are no Johns and only one Charles, his birth date 1640 is too late to be Charles ca 1657 (the elder) who died in Southold Long Island. The youngest son of Charles and Maud was John 1562-. John was of London and had two sons John (jr.) and Giles (nephew of Giles 1573-1623 The Baronett). The two sons of John 1562 are of approximatly the proper generation to be John Tooker -1658 of Southold. One is named John.

A John Tooker -1658 is made a "Free Man" of Southold Long Island in 1652. This John Tooker as far as we know was the father of both John (called "Captain" John) Tooker who remained on Long Island and was a man of substance, and Charles Tooker who was one of the original founders of Elizabeth Towne New Jersey in 1665.

It is my belief that John grandson of Charles and Maud was the John Tooker who was made a "Free Man" in Southold L.I. in 1652. There is an Oxford matriculation record for John Tooker. Refrence Oxford Matriculation Records pg. 1495. "John Tooker pleb. EXETERCOLL. Matric.5 May 1615 Aged 22, B.A. 10 Feb. 1615-16". By subtracting 22 from 1615 we get 1593. This is a reasonable number considering that John his father was born in 1562. It is also reasonable considering that the date of death of for John Tooker (Free Man of Southold 1652) is listed as 1658. He would have been about 65 when he died. "Captain" John died in 1690 considering he was born 20-30 years after his father would have been 66 to 76 at the date of death. It was said "Captain" John was a very old man when he died. Charles was still alive in New Jersey in 1690. The numbers seem to fit. There is a record of a Charles Tooker -1657 who owned a lot in southold prior to 1652. By 1658 he is dead. See post of Doug Tucker, attached. I believe that this Charles -1657 was the son of Thomas Tooker 1559- . I believe that "Captain" John Tooker/Tucker -1692 and Charles Tooker who went to Elizabeth Towne New Jersey in 1665 were brothers, and the sons of John Tooker -1658. It is possible that they were cousins with John being the son of John -1658 and Charles being the son of Charles - ca.1657. However I believe they were both the sons of John -1658. I say this because of the two John was more substantial, and the family holdings seem to go to him. I believe Charles was the younger and quote "went to seek his fortune" in New Jersey. What I am looking for is more documentation

Jeffrey R. Tooker


Subject: Early Tuckers/Tookers of Southold
Date: (No, or invalid, date.)
From: "Doug Tucker"
To: "Jeffrey Tooker"
CC: "Franklin B. Tucker"

Jeffrey:

I borrowed a copy of the Town of Southold last weekend and have had a chance to again review the available record against the latest information (from you, Franklin and others) on the origins of the Tuckers/Tookers of Southold. Here's how I currently interpret the few available records.

  1. It is doubtfull that John Tucker was among the initial group founding Southold in 1640 -- but he is documented as being a landowner before 6 April 1650/51. The several 'lists" of the earliest Southold residents are, at best, guesstimates compiled long after the fact. I don't think any of the lists can be used as "proofs". There are no surviving records from Southold before 6 Apr 1650/51 and John Tucker is mentioned as a landowner in the first surviving record. Problem is we don't know whether the reference is to the senior or junior John Tucker -- I suggest the 1650/51 reference was to the senior Tucker. In fact, the ONY reason we know there were two John Tuckers in early Southold is that Town records show that one of them died in 1658 and left a widow named Ann who later married Benjamin Horton. However, knowing that the elder John Tucker Sr. died in 1658 explains why Southold town records present an inventory of Capt. John Tucker's property (83.5 aces and 7 unspecified lots) on 6 Jan 1758/59. Such an inventory was necessary when property was inherited (no sale documentation) as it was the only way that property title could later be "perfected" -- by establishing the history of ownership.

  2. Speaking of Ann Tucker, we know from Torrey's "New England Marriages Before 1700" that Ann Tucker's maiden name was Anna Budd and that she was the daughter of John Budd Sr. (Lt. John Budd) and Katheryn Browne, early Southold settlers. John Budd (c1600-1669) and Katheryn Browne (1606-1672) were probably married in England about 1624/25 and Anna was certainly born between that date and 1630 when a brother, John Budd Jr. was born. Thus Anna Budd Tucker was a generation younger than her first husband and was a contemporary of her step-son, Capt. John Tucker/Tooker. Also worthy or note is that Anna's 1686 will established that she had no surviving children by either John Tucker or Benjamin Horton.

  3. Southold land records seem to indicate that the Charles Tucker shown as an owner of a residence before 1652 was NOT the Charles Tooker who went to Elizabeth Towne in 1665. An January 1658/59 land record calls him "..Charles Tucker, Gent., deceased, ..." when his Town Street residence lot was sold to John Swazey. I think that the elder John Tucker and this homeowner Charles Tucker were related, probably brothers. So, in your search for John Tucker's origins, you might keep an eye out for brothers named John and Charles, both probably born before 1600.

  4. Capt. John Tucker (he and others did not use the Tooker spelling until after 1660 -- possibly a politically inspired change related to the 1660 restoration of Charles II) purchased his residential property on Town Street from Nehemiah Smyth in 1653. A 1655 petition to the Connecticut Assembly that appears to have been hand written by either John senior or junior, clearly spelled the last name Tucker.) The house purchase probably coincided with his marriage to Sarah _____. (Her maiden name may have been Johnson as William Johnson's will shows that he had a married daughter named Sarah when he died in 1666 -- and William Johnson originally came from Hingham, Norfolk although Johnson was not among the original settlers of Southold. In any case, her maiden name is not a critical point at this juncture.)

  5. Capt. John Tucker, soon to be Tooker, moved from Southold to Ocquabank in 1660/61. In 1664/65 he moved west to settle in Brookhaven,Setauket. In 1684 he sold his Southold residence to William Hallock. Who actually lived there between 1661 and 1684 is unclear. Capt. John Tooker kept his Ocquabank property and left it to his last wife, Hannah, with provision that it be passed on to his oldest son Charles. Hannah actually transferred the property to Charles in 1695, soon after she married Col. John Youngs.

  6. Southold's Charles Tooker was made a freeman (voter) in October, 1662 which implied several things about Charles -- he was a property owner or at least a stable, committed member of the community; he was a member of the Congregational Church; and that he was at least 26 years of age. John Tucker was a "deacon" of the Southold church before 1663 implying that he, too was probably a freeman of the town. However, there is no indication in the post 1651 record of his being named freeman, so it must have occurred before 1651.

  7. I do not think Capt. John Tucker/Tooker or his brother/cousin Charles Tooker were as old as is sometime suggested. If John were made a feeman before 1651, he must have been born before 1625. However, John married and bought his first house in 1653 which suggests to me that it is likely that he was not born much before 1625. Similarly, we know that Charles was born before 1636, but I suspect he was born closer to 1630. He did not marry Mary Mitchell until AFTER he moved to Elizabeth Towne in 1665. Why do I think that? Because there were no Mitchell families recorded in Southold before 1665 or anywhere else on eastern Long Island, but there were two Mitchell families in Elizabeth Town. One of those Elizabeth Towne Mitchells was the mother of Benjamin Littell who married a granddaughter of Charles Tooker. Of course, Charles also could have had an earlier wife and just not have had surviving children. (DCT Note: Charles not marrying until he reached Elizabeth Towns fits with what we know of his children. His oldest known son, Charles Jr., did not marry until 1694 although property records establish that he was born 1670 or earlier.)

  8. Between 1675 and 1678, the name of Samuel Tooker appears on several Brookhaven documents, at least two of which are signed by both Samuel and Capt. John Tooker. Who was this Samuel Tucker? The documents establish that Samuel Tooker had a occupation (tailor) and was born before 1654. Was he perhaps the son of Capt. John Tooker? If so, he would have been John's oldest son and must have died before 1686 when John Tooker's will established that Charles was the oldest son. Or is it possible that Samuel of Brookhaven was another son of the senior John Tucker who died in Southold in 1658? (If he was a son of Anna Budd Tucker, he had died before 1686 when her will established that she had no surviving children. However, he might have been the son of an earlier wife, in which case Samuel would have had to have been born before 1650. (DCT Note: A Samuel Tooker paid taxes on property along the Elizabeth Towne/Newark border in 1696. I have always thought that this Samuel must have been a son of Charles Tooker and Mary Mitchell of Elizabeth Towne (no other Tooker being present old enough to have a son who was a property owner in 1696) but he might have been the Samuel Tooker who showed up in Brookhaven records in the 1670's. Another Tooker puzzle that needs more research!)

Keep in mind that none of this is etched in granite -- just my musings on the open Tucker/Tooker issues at Southold. Maybe it will help when you are ready to hook up these Tookers with one of your Wilshire lines.

Doug Tucker dougtucker@erols.com


Subject: The Elder Charles Tucker of Southold
Date: (No, or invalid, date.)
From: "Doug Tucker"
To: "Jeffrey Tooker"
cc: "Franklin B. Tucker"

Jeffrey:

As you know, I believe the were two Charles Tuckers living in early Southold. The younger Charles is the Charles Tooker who went to Elizabeth Towne in 1665. The elder Charles Tucker appears to have died in 1657/58 or perhaps a year earlier. My judgement is based on two entries in the Southold town tecords. One is a plat diagram of the town, showing that Charles Tucker owned a residence on Town Street prior to 1652 -- he appears to have been the original owner of that particular lot which was situated between the residence lot of John Budd Sr. and the residence lot of Barnabas Horton (Budd and Horton reportedly being the two wealthiest residents in Southold.)

The second entry is as follows:

"Charles Tucker, late of Southold, Gent., deceased, by his deed in writing bearing date of the first day of ffebruarie 1657, for valuable consideracion, conveyed to the said John Swasey all his right and interest in the above written whom lott and all the accommodacions thereunto of right belonging with tt' apptenncss, as in and by the same deede at ..".

I do not think the younger Charles would have been accorded the title "Gentleman" as he was not elected a freeman until Oct.1662. He was too young -- Gent. usually connoted age, community esteem. It is worthwhile to note that the Gent title was also used for the elder John Tucker when his death was announced in 1658. His son, Capt. John never was accorded the Gent. title while he lived at Southold.

In sum, I suggest that the elder Charles and the elder John were closely related (brothers or cousins) and were of the same generation, probably born before 1600. The younger Capt. John Tooker and Charles Tooker of Elizabeth Towne were of the next generation and also were closely related -- in their case I think they were likely brothers as Charles seemed to be free of property when he went to Elizabeth Town which suggests that he was the "second son" of the elder John Tucker who Southold records show left his property to eldest son, Capt. John Tooker.

Also, I checked the entire Southold town record and the first instance that the name Tooker appears in the record is in 1662 when it is applied to Capt. John Tooker. So, as far as Southold goes, there seem to have been no significance as to which way the name was spelled.

Hope this clarifies why I think there were two Charles Tuckers at Southold.

Doug Tucker dougtucker@erols.com



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